Originally by: Atomos Darksun

---

If you give the Pilgrim a range bonus the Curse will become just the same as the Rook.

Rep bonus or something, perhaps make it a strictly TD boat.

---

Originally by: Atomos Darksun

---

Originally by: Marcus Druallis

---

What about Huggin? You know why the only reason the Curse is so common compared to the other Combat Recons? Because the other races Force Recons get the range bonus, which is so useful (obviously). But, you know, just keep saying how the pilgrim is fine, Im sure you'll eventually convince yourself.

---

I never said the Pilgrim was fine. It's a piece of ****, that's a fact.

But you can't give it the same range bonus the Curse has, because then you have a Curse that can cloak. Why have a curse when you can just do it with that Pilgrim?

Maybe give it half the range bonus the curse has, so it still has to operate within Point range but not in the web/death zone. Or something completely different, like make it a strictly awesome TD boat.

---

Originally by: Stuart Price

---

Replace drone damage bonus with nos/neut range bonus. That will put the Pilgrim in line with the other force recons as far as the relation to combat recons is concerned.

Yes, it will make it a frighteningly evil pvp ship but considering that every other ship I see flying around these days is a rapier (or don't see thanks to covops cloak as the case may be...) I'm not too bothered about that.

---

Originally by: Corduroy Rab

---

Originally by: Marcus Druallis

---

Originally by: Atomos Darksun

---

Originally by: Marcus Druallis

---

What about Huggin? You know why the only reason the Curse is so common compared to the other Combat Recons? Because the other races Force Recons get the range bonus, which is so useful (obviously). But, you know, just keep saying how the pilgrim is fine, Im sure you'll eventually convince yourself.

---

I never said the Pilgrim was fine. It's a piece of ****, that's a fact.

But you can't give it the same range bonus the Curse has, because then you have a Curse that can cloak. Why have a curse when you can just do it with that Pilgrim?

Maybe give it half the range bonus the curse has, so it still has to operate within Point range but not in the web/death zone. Or something completely different, like make it a strictly awesome TD boat.

---

But did you read the OP. I'm saying that all other Force Recons get the range bonus. So what if the Pilgrim would become like the Curse. The Curse would still have more damage capability. What you are not seeing in my argument is the fact that ALL THE OTHER RECONS ARE BONUSED LIKE THIS.

---

My guess would be that the pilgrim is different because NOS/Neut are more direct weapons than ECM/Damps and to a less extent webs. Don't get me wrong I would love for my pilgrim to have a nos/neut range bonus, but I can also see how that might make the ship a bit too good.

---

Originally by: RuleoftheBone

---

Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 09/06/2008 11:22:58

Amarr cruiser V completes in 13 days. Note I said works nicely with existing skills...I did not intend to imply experience beyond watching other excellent pilots fly this ship.

The setup:

[Pilgrim, Final]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Dark Blood Adaptive Nano Plating
Dark Blood Adaptive Nano Plating
Medium Armor Repairer II
Internal Force Field Array I

10MN Afterburner II
Domination Warp Scrambler
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Optimal Range Disruption
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Recon Probe Launcher I, Snoop Scanner Probe I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Anti-Thermic Pump I
Anti-Kinetic Pump I

Drones drones and more drones.

For my intended usage I am quite confident the setup detailed will work fine...and also for very small gang work. With the exception of certain passive tank ships and missile spamming terrors like the Cerb/Raven I have every confidence the Pilgrim will perform just as capably as my Rapier...possibly more so given an active EWAR system AND a rather nasty short-range neut capability.

It just means more comittment to the engagement due to short range. Not so easy to bail with a Pilgrim if things go pear-shaped.

I must have misunderstood you. When I read your list seeing words like "gatecamp" and "nano" that mean diddly to me in losec flying a Recon I thought you were implying a certain combat style (el blob) that ain't my thing .

In any case...I think the setup manages to tick your boxes in a reasonable manner aside from lack of MWD option for 0.0 and a couple semi-expensive faction bits required to make it work. Having Recon V and max/near-max fit skills utterly required. There are of course some obvious minor variations that allow for fitting 2 medium neuts or modified EWAR mids but you can poke those around yourself. Ditto rigs of preference. Ditto the AB..but I am Minmatar specialized for the most part and I find it difficult NOT to fit a prop mod .

The probe launcher is an option of course. But for solo/small gang I find it to be virtually mandatory to maximize hunting opportunities.

-I have no regrets in expending the SP time to fly this ship (oh-Curse as well-yeah)

-I am confident it will perform as expected.

-Drakes will remain safe from my attentions (I don't know why I bother trying).

-If CCP decide to give the ship a boost-great. I won't complain. The Pilgrim pre-NOS balance was one of the most terrifying ships to have decloak on a victim (it scared the nuts off me the first time I was on the recieving end...from DE no less) and it still presents a significant threat. It won't take but a little tweak to CPU and perhaps some careful adjustment to cap warfare range ability (or DPS...or tank) to return the ship to its former glory and more even parity with other Force Recons able to engage from mid-long ranges.

And yeah...its a setup from EFT. I have not flown it yet. Ship and mods are sitting in hangar awaiting installation. I'll let you know how it goes.

**EDIT**Yeah you can save CPU with a Sister's launcher but that is a seriously expensive piece of gear to hang on

---

Originally by: RuleoftheBone

---

Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 09/06/2008 13:23:38

Originally by: Marcus Druallis

---

But see, this is why people tell you to fly the ship before telling others how it performs. You are sitting there telling us the ship is fine, yet you plan to fit ONE medium neut and 1 small neut? Really?

---

Yes. Sufficient for the work I need it to do. Think about the setup a bit and read the comments.

And the faction stuff is not overly expensive btw.

YMMV.

And Lord Waratron...you can dismiss my not having flown it. Yet. Fair enough. But aside from tossing out a one-liner disregarding another pilots experience. knowledge, and abilities your counter-post does not actually critique the setup for its intended purposes.

Guess we'll have to see what the ole KB (and my loot hangar) say in a month's time.

**EDIT**Branko is correct. Setup is primarily for mission busting and engaging lone targets. And the Pilgrim kill highlighted by Erotic was dusted by a Hurricane/Drake combo...hardly a clever choice for the pilot to engage. Knowing what I know of mission/anomaly work the setup I detailed will work better than my Rapier. For open space...my Rapier will always be favored. For deadspace and similar...the Pilgrim is a more sensible choice.

**Final edit**There is flexibility in the design. Read my entire post to decipher why. Until CCP decided to boost the ship in some fashion I fully intend to make it work as is..and as something other than a 0.0 hauler.

---

Originally by: RuleoftheBone

---

Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 09/06/2008 14:07:57
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 09/06/2008 13:56:54
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 09/06/2008 13:52:45

**EDIT**The more I think about it the more a range bonus to the neut/nos capabilites of the Pilgrim would be hugely overpowered. If any improvement is intended hopefully the designers look at DPS/cap/CPU/something drone related for potential boosts bearing in mind the close range nature of the ship.

---

Originally by: Ruciza

---

Originally by: Lord WarATron

---

1. Pilgrim not a gang ship

[...]

the reality of how pvp works.

---

Your reality. And it is not very impressive given that you already fail in your first sentence.

Do you really have to use each and every bonus every time? Silly people.

---

Originally by: Methem

---

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

---

Originally by: Methem

---

but not be a cloaking curse.

---

Rapier is a cloaking huginn, falcons is a cloaking rook and arazu is a cloaking lachesis. Where does all this anti cloaking curse wave come from? You anti cloak-curse then you should be anti 3 other ships that behave exactly like that too.

---

I think it would be overpowered. But thats my opinion, you are entitled to your own.

---

Originally by: Diomidis

---

Originally by: Marcus Druallis

---

Originally by: Ruciza

---

Originally by: Lord WarATron

---

1. Pilgrim not a gang ship

[...]

the reality of how pvp works.

---

Your reality. And it is not very impressive given that you already fail in your first sentence.

Do you really have to use each and every bonus every time? Silly people.

---

lol? You realize how much it takes out of me to agree with a bob guy :p

THE PILGRIM CANNOT PERFORM IN A GANG

If you think it does, its because you have ABSOLUTELY no grasp on how the **** pvp is done. And after stating that sentence, I'm not going to continue, because it would be a waste of my time.

---

Imagine the pain I'm going through, having to agree with both Bobbits AND Lyria!

Hey, the Pilgrim can perform in gang...you just neglect the NOS/Neut bonus, warp in at 100km from the gate, and fit MWD + SB + 3x TDs to screw up a few turret sniping BSs or fight closer with 4x TDs...it's a falcon like approach

You nano the lows and fit some relays for the cap to last, and hope your drones will chase off stupid ceptors...and who knows...one might even try to web you, so that you can neut him

---

Originally by: Endless Subversion

---

Originally by: Daanika

---

Unfit the MWD, repackage the AB... fit 2 webs and feel the rush of ruining someone's underwear by uncloaking 7k off their hull...

---

Ah. You must have meant "feel the rush of shortly having one less worthless pilgrim". Engaging anything PvP fit and larger than a cruiser is going to result in a dead pilgrim.

Not to mention the loads of other problems with having a <13km engagement range with 0 propulsion mods...

I've flown the pilgrim for ages and it's total rubbish for anything besides hauling and solo mission ganking.

---

Originally by: Kerdrak

---

Edited by: Kerdrak on 11/06/2008 17:03:55
Pilgrim is ok, if you don't like to fly it because can't be nanoed don't fly it (you still have the Curse), it's an excellent close combat hac with cloak.

---

Originally by: Barbens

---

The main reason behind the last of a range bonus, is the fact that i can warp cloaked. Think about it, why do you need 40k range, when you can sneak up on them?



BaRbEnS

---

Originally by: Kerdrak

---

Originally by: Marcus Druallis

---

Originally by: Kerdrak

---

Edited by: Kerdrak on 11/06/2008 17:03:55
Pilgrim is ok, if you don't like to fly it because can't be nanoed don't fly it (you still have the Curse), it's an excellent close combat hac with cloak.

---

lol? Excellent as compared to what? An Osprey?

---

You obviously have no clue

---

Originally by: Cpt Branko

---

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/06/2008 11:58:26

Well, it does in a number of ways, but it's primarily because it's got huge fitting issues and so on; not because of lack of range. There's nothing wrong with killing people at short range. Adding range to it would require a serious gimp in its damage-dealing capabilities, really, with keeping the fittings as gimped as they are.

tl;dr: nano-Curse is fearsome, but it doesn't cloak, which IS a big deal. A cloaking nano-Curse would simply be overpowered, it has to make significant sacrifices to compensate for the covops cloak.

---

Originally by: Inertial

---

I like the Pilgrim, so I don't care really how badly it may be compared to the curse, I won't fly it because its the best thing out there, I will fly it because it is the ship I like the most atm.

I still haven't finished training for it, but when I do, I am planning on fitting it like this:

[Pilgrim, New Setup 1]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
N-Type Thermic Hardener I
N-Type Kinetic Hardener I
N-Type Adaptive Nano Membrane I

10MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Medium Tapered Capacitor Infusion I, Cap Booster 800
[empty med slot]

Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Nanobot Accelerator I
Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Hammerhead II x5

Tanks nicely enough and everything (350 dps + I think, I'll invest in implants and hardwireings). It is meant for low-sec tough. I got no idea if it will work, or how it will work, so I guess I will figure out after loosing a few

---